I am a person with bipolar-like symptoms who does not desire a diagnosis. I am one of a group founding a community in the Appalachians, and I seriously doubt I would be successful in such an endeavor without the vision, drive, and even the darkness that are inseparable facets of my condition. I do dream that our community may redefine what is "functional", so that more of my Mad friends can live healthy and productive lives while reducing or eliminating their need for pharmaceuticals.

There are indeed some symptoms of madness that are undesirable to the self, family, and community. It is important to look beyond the discomfort and seek truth, forgetting the loose association of symptoms called a "disease" and respecting each individual's experiences as valid perspectives. Remember that psychiatry and psychology are only relevant inside our western cultural context. In this country, "seeing visions" or "hearing voices" may get you incarcerated, tied to your bed sitting in your own shit and piss, forcibly medicated unto drooling, or exposed to electroshock or other treatments against your will. In many tribes, such a person would be revered, set apart perhaps, but fed and cared for out of respect to their unique perceptions.

For more on balancing Madness and community, check out The Icarus Project:
theicarusproject.net/

The jump was the worst part: cold, and I hit my head on the wing!

(Just kidding!!)

I think DB is right about a bunch of things here. one need only read the past twenty or thirty eyars of carious versions of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistic manual of mental disorders) to se that what gets labeled "mental illness" goes in and out of fashion.

therse days it is popular in the larger world to label almost anything you don; like in yourslef or your neighbor 9especially) an mental disorder. I strongly recommend that anyone here read Dr peter Breggin, a coardcertified humanitarian MD psychiatrist who ahs been speaking out against psychiatric abuse 9especaill medication, and formerly electroshock and psychosurgery) for decades..ccheck out www.breggin.com.

as for the guy someone mentioned today in this thread who is hoarding - some psychiatrically- and psychotherapy-inclinded people are addressing that as a mental disease now too, but that's pretty far-reaching. it;s true that some people cannot easily control their behavior, whether they are like m beighbor, who even though she has been warned by the landlord and the police that she cannot continue to sing, yell, and make all the noise she wants under other peope's windows or on the uilding;s shared porch at all hours - she just can;t quite stop herself. 9alcohol has something to do with that.) or people who are obsessively over-organized or obsessively messy - I think it really doesn't matter in the long run whether it is a "mental illness" but Ido feel a commnity has a rght to decide as a group what levels of behavior are and are not acceptable.
it used to be, and not so long ago, that girls who wanted to study engineering and didnlt care t get married and raise children,, or men who discovered they were homosexual were labeled as mentally ill. now I meet people, regulrly, who are far too willling ot label themselves "ADD" or "ADHD" and, often, in a hurry to diagnose others with the same "disorder." (I recall clearly a social gathering at which I ried to change the topic several times, saying I wasn;t interested in arguing and that this guy was welcome to whatever identifications made his life function, but he persisted in saing"I'll bet you really do have io and don;t recognize it, and there might be a medication that would make you feel better." I finally said tat what would make me feel better was talking about anything else,and tatif he couldn;t stop badgering me, talking with almost anyone else.)

anyway, so much of what you say here, DB, is right on target. "crazy" people., like everyone else, come in many different types and some eare easier to be around than others, and most are not any more dangerous than everyone else.

I was thinking about Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and about Isaac Newton agan today, and how they were total social misfits who in today's world would have been identified as
disturbed", irged to focus less on thier "obsessions" with music and science, and probably been medicated into a functional mediocrity...and the world woul never have known t impossibly beauitful music of a Boy Wonder nor the basic laws of physics that govern the amterial universe, nor the amthematics that explains how they work...worry you went through that kind of humilation, DB.

It's not necessarily OCD. It could simply be hoarding. It's a symptom of a larger problem. Here's a short article about it:

www.associatedcontent.com/artic...e.html

I just started reading a disturbing but encouraging book called "Voluntary madness" by an investigative journalist named Norah Vincent about what happens when you "voluntarily" commit yourself to the modern mental health system. published last year.

I don;t deny that some people are deeply troubled and thus hard to reach into a consensus reality, in community or "out on the street" or in one's family.

but the flip side of it is that especially these days...well, always..."mental health care" is not a kindly system and anyone who wants to go into psychiatric nursing care, especially because they think they are "helping" people needs to read this journalist's accounts.

others - read and tell me what you think! I;m only a few chapters into it.

I used to be live-in counseling staff in a community that cared for diagnosed chronically schizophrenic and autistic adolescents with as little medication as possible (often none, mostly only in emergencies.) we made our mistakes but I still have to salute the basic humanity of our approach.

when no one is labeled "counselor" it gets more complicated, yes.

Yes, our society makes many stressed and alienated to the point of being ill. Just the other day, I came across an article about "emotional adultery". Seems some folks think married people shouldn't have friends of the opposite sex who offer emotional support, etc. especially when they talk about things they don't talk about with their spouses.

Howz that for control freakery?! Like sexual apartheid (same sex schools) religious control freaks do their utmost to keep us alienated from our sexuality, and now, want to isolate us emotionally.

Anyway, that's not what I was going to mention. See how my mind wanders? When I hit reply, I meant to say

people with money tend to do better. Fine sometimes. Transportation, housing, child care, all are easily accessible when you have $$$$. They can sometimes work their own hours! I think they view us as mentally ill, as a way to avoid acknowledging the societal cost of social injustice.