Spies in Community?

topic posted Tue, April 7, 2009 - 5:49 PM by  D.B. Cooper
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
At a couple of communes I visited, I heard a person or two speculate if someone there was an undercover something or the other. While I think it possible for private or governmental groups to snoop into this subculture, I had the thought that the speakers had an inflated view of their importance! Yea, in the 60's or 70's, the founder of Wackenhut and some of his rich buddies kept a private watch on, "the Left", as did the government. But, I see communes as a blip on the screen and unworthy of much attention. But here's my thought:

The folks I heard talk would see people who were moderate in views and appearance as the likeliest agents. But, I have read enough and talked to enough people to know that agencies train their folks to go in taking the most extreme tone and mimicking the groups dress and speech. Which means, the infiltrator isn't going to look like Mr. or Ms. Normal. And, they won't be a moderate in belief. They will be oh so cool! Dreds! Mannerisms, slang, all down pat. I wish more commune folk knew this!

Another facet: If a group is going to become cliquish, those with political and social power will ostracize the moderates. But, you know, moderates are the bridge to the mainstream. And, they're the bridge to reality. Turn those folks away and you're left with True Believers; ideologues, who care more about the group's cohesiveness than effectiveness in changing the world.

So, an agent wanting to disrupt a group could kill two birds with one stone by being an extremist. They would run off the moderates, thereby turning the group into an isolated bunch of ideologues, with no bridges to the mainstream. Mainstream folks would tune them out. They would recognize them as ideologues. Secondly, the agent would more easily PASS as an OK person. And, all those clean cut activists who were treated like aliens would go home.

Know this!
posted by:
D.B. Cooper
Indianapolis
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Re: Spies in Community?

    Tue, April 7, 2009 - 6:39 PM
    I doubt even the federal government can afford this now, so unless your group is pretty far out - as in guns, drug production, or Islamic radicalism ... Don't these people live together? Don't they know each other? Makes you wonder why people in the group would be talking about this, unless they were saying it to see your reaction (which is a pretty weird thing to do).

    We've had snoops - usually journalists. most recently about 15 years ago we got into trouble for feeding and sheltering homeless people (zoning violation) and had journalists come and pretend to be homeless.
    • Re: Spies in Community?

      Tue, April 7, 2009 - 8:09 PM
      the reason our federal government can't afford this, is because this is what they have been wasting their money on..
      oops, i mean, our money.. whos' is it anywho?
      well, this keys in to what I have been thinking about...
      if "they" wnat to spy on me,. then let them. if they want to use the info they gained on me... porn, crazy beliefs, etc.... then shame on them... if they want to try and dis arm me in front of people who value so and so as a way of being..
      i say: spying is natural.
      we are all, all, all spies for a future that could be!
      spying is what we do.
      facebook is spying
      we should expect people from the "establishment" to be in our meetings. maybe we should invite them, so they can see that we aren't going to destroy them, and..... if we are destroying their way of life... ie. causing people to realize that they don't need to drive 1hr + to work each day...
      causing people to pause, and think... they need to realize, that some deconstruction... is good
      lately spying is causing people to have freak outs.
      my niece was at a "S.W.A.T. jr contest the other day...
      where kids were learning it is ok to play with big men, and knock in doors, and these are our friends BS!
      well... I say, let them in, but, don't let them take you out! without dancing with you!
    • Re: Spies in Community?

      Wed, April 8, 2009 - 8:08 AM
      The Farm in Tennessee had an FBI agent join their training program. She had her cover blown when it was sauna time and as when disrobing the concealed weapon appeared :-)

      True story!
      • Re: Spies in Community?

        Wed, April 8, 2009 - 12:47 PM
        Chinny reckon? That sounds a bit far-fetched even for the FBI...
        • Re: Spies in Community?

          Thu, April 9, 2009 - 12:10 PM
          I think that insular thinking, bunker mentality, and paranoia are bigger problems in community than spies. I think fear of spies mostly a symptom of that alienation.
          • Re: Spies in Community?

            Thu, April 9, 2009 - 4:47 PM
            Good point, Will.

            It occurred to me today that this relates to witch hunting. As in, fear of spies can be a way to ward off those who think differently. (Or those who simply think!) We all know women were pressured to conform in Salem, by way of witch hunts. Similarly, I see men being pressured to conform in some communities by phony accusations of sexual harassment. All that need be done is for the accusation to be made, for the man to be intimidated and marginalized. There is no hearing. Seldom is it considered that the woman may have political or social reasons to make accusations, put spin on some small event, etc. Now with fear of spies, anyone who plays devil's advocate can be accused, behind their back, of being a spy. Anyone whose views are not as extreme as the rest can be so slandered. Also, merely not looking cool can cause one to be shunned, too. Jeebers.
      • Re: Spies in Community?

        Wed, April 8, 2009 - 4:00 PM
        "High Times" magazine once had an article on the Farm, and said helicopters full of cops descended on the place looking for pot, back in the 80's, and found none. I wonder if it's because it's in Tennessee, or if the feds worry about the place more than all the other IC's?
    • Re: Spies in Community?

      Wed, April 8, 2009 - 3:50 PM
      Both cases where I heard this speculation were rural communes with many members and a constant flow of visitors. So, they likely wondered about some new members, plus the visitors. Still, in my opinion, they were a bit silly/grandiose. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe someone cared about their rad politics.
  • I used to spend a lot of time at the Berkeley Psychic Institute, where they teach clairvoyance, etc. They are not an IC.

    They used to have a sign that said something like:

    "Hello Government agents, employees of the FBI, CIA, Agents of Foreign Intelligence Services. Welcome to the Berkeley Psychic Institute. While you may be pretending to be something other than you are, we are, after all, psychics, and we know who you are, what you are doing, and why you are here. Please see the registrar to sign up for our classes."

    They took the sign down about 10 years ago.
    • That's funny (Berkely Psychics)!

      In the 80's, I was sitting in a university building where people studied, had meetings, etc. Across the room some anti-nuclear power activists were meeting. I heard a woman whisper to another that she wondered if I might be spying on them! All I was doing was sitting there reading.

      Frankly, I wonder if half the fear of spies is drug related! And if the other half is grandiose thinking (A self-inflated sense of importance). But, I must admit it happens. A friend says whenever 3 people of any kind of counter culture meet, one has to be a cop. He also says the Rainbow Gatherings are known to have undercover cops (As 2 women were murdered at one many years back, simply turning up dead in the woods, maybe this is a good thing!).

      Me, I say why worry? If you're not hiding drugs and you're not planning violence, what's the big deal?
      • In our community, most folks are on the left side of most political issues. We had one older member, dead now for many years, who was a Regan Republican. He was pretty much a law abiding guy who grew some amazing tomatoes in his garden. One day, a small plane started buzzing his home. He called up the FAA to raise hell about it, when he was descended on by a large group of narcotics cops who mistook his tomatoes for something else. I wasn't there to witness the raid, but enjoyed hearing the accounts of my friend scolding the cops for their behavior.

Recent topics in "Intentional Community"