A friend and I are having an arguement.
Him:
I don't want to live in an intentional eco community.
They make dozens of rules. If you eat meat you're evil.
Everyone *has* to be equal OR ELSE!
Me:
I don't see that this has to be the case. My vision involves using sound eco practices and technology (solar ovens and the like).
If you want meat you grow it and treat it ethically.
It's your money, if you want to own something that's your business just keep it within the commitment toward a lower carbon footprint. I know some things aren't condusive to low carbon footprint but do the research and get the lowest possible for your needs.
Yes contributions for the community's welfare are important. If you form a business, it's your business and you need to follow through with any time commitments you've made to the community.
Comments?
Him:
I don't want to live in an intentional eco community.
They make dozens of rules. If you eat meat you're evil.
Everyone *has* to be equal OR ELSE!
Me:
I don't see that this has to be the case. My vision involves using sound eco practices and technology (solar ovens and the like).
If you want meat you grow it and treat it ethically.
It's your money, if you want to own something that's your business just keep it within the commitment toward a lower carbon footprint. I know some things aren't condusive to low carbon footprint but do the research and get the lowest possible for your needs.
Yes contributions for the community's welfare are important. If you form a business, it's your business and you need to follow through with any time commitments you've made to the community.
Comments?
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Re: EcoNazis?
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 4:40 PMInteresting topic. I have noted that a lot of people who eat grocery store meat think hunting is cruel. I've never understood that attitude. I understand vegans thinking hunting is cruel, but not meat eaters. So, it would seem to me that the most sustainable thing for a meat eater to do would be to learn to hunt. -
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Re: EcoNazis?
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 10:28 PMhunting isn't out of the question. Finding healthy game that isn't over hunted and waiting for the proper season may be the problem. And getting used to the taste would be another. I've tried several types of game but didn't like it.
What I thought was curious -- a site about aquaponics which states that one disadvantage pertains to feeding the fish. Fish food is made of sea creatures and is thus unsustainable.
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Re: EcoNazis?
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 7:52 PMI find it it really interesting that the first issue brought up while referring to an "intentional eco community" is diet. There are plenty of communities that do not describe themselves as ecovillages who are vegetarian, and there are plenty of communities that describe themselves as ecovillages who have some form of meat eating involved. Food ethics are often hot topics at communities focused on sustainability (as well they should be) but so are many other things--i.e. from where, in what way, and how much energy to procure.
I suspect that your friend is having needs come up around his diet and that addressing those specifically rather than applying them generally to all "eco communities" might be a way to go.
On a side note: I'm not sure what he means by "everyone must be equal." And on another note, any time one uses the word "must", I wonder if there's some "rule" or dogma behind it. (Speaking of "dozens of rules")
eriol -
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Re: EcoNazis?
Sat, April 19, 2008 - 10:33 PMI know, it's kind of unfair to generalize. I guess there's ICs out there of every stripe.
I think what he meant was that in a some of ICs everything (tools, food, living quarters etc) is shared. Some even go so far as to dictate what clothes you can wear or what's accptible decor. It doesn't sound appealing to me either. So you just don't throw your lot in with that type of place.
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Re: EcoNazis?
Sun, April 20, 2008 - 3:58 PMI've seen eco-Nazis, and energy-Nazis in IC's (The latter like to turn lights off, leaving you in the dark. Or, they'll turn the fan off in the outhouse in the hot summer!). But, don't be discouraged. Visit a lot.
Even more problematic, in my opinion, are femiNazis. And, the damage they do comes from gossip and spin. A male visitor or member can get a damaged reputation, all because an insecure woman convinces herself and her clique you are a sexist pig and predator. When actually, they think most men are, and jump at any opportunity to accuse one of such. Flirting. Glancing at them when they walk around buck naked. Etc. Silliest stuff I ever witnessed. -
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Re: EcoNazis?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 12:45 AMgetting one step away from the topics:
there are "something-nazis" which we mean people with some ideological stick up their asses that they are hostile to some people.
so that sucks regardless of the topics because in the US people don't get motivated to change by witnessing other's hostility to them. but that's not to say that the environment is no big deal to care about. factory farming is about the closest thing to pure evil. but it doesn't help getting mad at people about it.
it's really hard for me to keep that in mind. keep loving people who eat convensional meat in my community (most of them do!!!) I just surround myself with other vegitarians so I don't have to get angry often. but I keep my kindness to everyone.
I wonder if other "eco-nazies" realize how ineffective they are, but just can't help getting angry.
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Re: EcoNazis?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 9:22 AMThat's some pretty broad generalizations!
In the community I'm a part of, we're mostly meat-eaters who don't want to eat slave meat and slave dairy from the stores and want to see it localized and done morally. And we haven't made a single rule yet, not one! There are communities like ours growing out of Rainbow that are trying to maintain our rather more anarchist ideals and the consensus council process.
And we're forming mostly because we never could find a community that was open and free enough for us, so here we are starting one.
Love and Light,
Joshua -
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Re: EcoNazis?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 7:10 PMSo... got room for the 52 inch big screen? <jk>
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Re: EcoNazis?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 7:30 AMJoshua, I think the key is to do exactly what you're doing--start your own! Communities can form around anything (sex, diet, political ideology, spirituality, etc.), of which will have their "nazi" adherents. Any form of ideological rigidity can be seen to be extreme and arrogant. The more involved with intentional community I am, the more I look to the emotional and psychological health and resilience of the individual members. That's a huge piece of how communities function that needs more attention. People with inner nazis will find multiple ways to express them, be it diet or otherwise. -
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Re: EcoNazis?
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 2:55 PMBehold, the Inner Nazi can manifest in these forms:
The woman who views men and sexuality as bad, bad, bad. You better not tell a joke, get caught glancing (So what if they walked past you naked, or lifted their skirt and peed so close you almost got wet.)
The eco-Nazi. Air conditioning is for the weak! Light for the blind.
The hipster. If you are straight, you're square. Never mind that you care about activism. If you ain't got a stash, and don't wear the right clothes, you're sooo, oh, how do they say on Park Avenue in Manhattan? 'Cause you know, it's all the same. The Halston Dress crowd and the hipster crowd.
The snob Marxist. Jargon, jargon, jargon. Etc.
The Peace Activist. Cops, the military, they're ALL bad. If you acknowledge it's a dangerous world out there, you must be paranoid.
The Inner Nazi can manifest in other ways, also.
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